This is a COMPLETE log of the IRC conference held by Fingerz (Mat Bettinson
of CU Amiga) on the new Amiga, known as Project Walker. The conference was
held on Sunday March 17. 1996. It started at 15:08:39 and ended at 18:23:29
(CET).
This log was captured and edited by Troels <troels@stud.cs.uit.no>. It has
been edited for maximum signal and minimum noise. My comments are in [].
I believe the maximum number of users on #walker was 73. Not bad for a
completely unannounced IRC conference. :-)
Many thanks to Fingerz for doing that interview with Heinz Wretsel and
sharing the information with the rest of us! Also thanks to gregh and Drizzt
who moderated.
[First walker.specs (included in this archive) was dcc'ed to everyone]
<gregh> OK Fingerz wanted the channel changed to moderated. Now Fingerz, what way do you want to work it?> Want to start by telling us what you have to say?
<Fingerz> That's everyone from A-L on my side.
<Fingerz> Ok that's me sending it out enough. Everyone can get it from DCC robots and other people now.
<gregh> Fingerz: Are you going to explain anything to us at this point?
<Fingerz> Y'all take a minute to read it before questions.
<Fingerz> gregh: Read it first. Saves duped questions and stuff that's in it.
<Fingerz> Someone let me know a topic for XDCC instructions etc.
<gregh> Thanks to chelt for that! ;-}
<gregh> Fingerz: They can get it from Chelt's bot. I put that in the topic
<Fingerz> gregh: How's this going to work for questions? /msg etc or do you think we can just open the channel?
<gregh> Right well What I will do is op someone else and we can have 2 people for sending to in order to /msg. Does that suit you?
<Fingerz> My pics are being developed, they'll be scanned later but I doubt I'll be able to publish them electronically etc. The mag has copyright.
<Fingerz> gregh: That's fine.
<gregh> I think we all already have pix
<gregh> OK I am hoping Drizzit wont mind helping. OK Driz?
<Drizzit> No Prob.
<Fingerz> I'd like to make it clear that I don't know everything but with a heavy background in electronics I asked all the relevant questions. I've a full dictaphone and notebook. I'm satisfied I k
<gregh> OK now Fingerz, have you anything to say before questions?
<Fingerz> Yep.
<Fingerz> A couple of personal thoughts first.
<gregh> Go for it. ;-}
<Fingerz> I was surprised. Very surprised.
<Fingerz> The machine looks different and maybe not to everyone's tastes but I'd sure as hell feel proud to have it on my desk.
<gregh> .ACTION is logging.
<Fingerz> Bugger it. Let's get started with questions.
<gregh> OK we will give VOICE to those asking questions. /msg gregh or Drizzit.
<gregh> Rauper go for it
<rauper> How do AT feel about the suggestion that an EC030 is a way to underpowered machine to introduce in late '96 and will be rejected by buyers for this reason?
<Fingerz> I asked this of course.
<Fingerz> This machine is a low end machine. Currently they obviously couldn't move to anything else. The Walker would have had less of everything else if it was based on an 68040 etc.
<Fingerz> The 68EC030 is the highest power to price ration CPU at the moment. Also the CPU slot will it actually cheaper to upgrade the CPU.
<Fingerz> Then there's the AT PPC card for early '97 of course.
<Fingerz> GA
<Drizzit> Rauper: Remeber also that the cost difference between an EC030/40 and a full 030/50 is about $100. Not economical for a low end machine.
<Fingerz> Please stop /msging me. Go to gregh or Drizzit
<Fingerz> A 40Mhz EC030 is still a lot quicker than any machine as standard made before.. It IS as standard. Net users = Power users. Let's face it, we'll stick a faster CPU card or a PPC in there q
<gregh> OK Active for for it
<Active> If you are looking for Walker Images - check out www.cuorg.org - link from there
<Fingerz> Superb.
<Fingerz> I thought they'd be someplace.
<Fingerz> Everyone get the pics. The machine looks RADICALLY different from what anyone could have guess.
<gregh> Maverick_ is next
<Fingerz> The amount of UserInfo's I'm getting seems to indicate no-one know's who I am. I'm Mat Bettinson technical staff writer for CU Amiga Magazine. GA Maverick.
<Maverick_> I am a professional game developer, working on Virtual Rally and StarFighter now. Q: Will the ChipRam be DualPort, or much faster access than A1200's ChipRam? Morever, 1Mb of ChipRam is *
<Maverick_> it's all the Q ;)
<Maverick_> :D
<Fingerz> Ok.
<Drizzit> Fingerz: The queastion came up a few times: what features does 3.2 have over 3.1?
<Fingerz> Firstly, you have to understand that we expect NO serious new machine at CeBIT.
<Fingerz> Drizzit: Later.
<Fingerz> As for Chip RAM, yes it's odd they billed it as a 1MB chip machine.
<Fingerz> However, heinz Wretsel, central to Project Walker said that he didn't expect it would have less than 2MB of Chip. It's difficult to buy less and it's not much cheaper.
<Fingerz> AT are not going to do ANYTHING with the AGA chip-set. They were clear it is to die.
<gregh> gregh and Drizzit are only queueing the questions, not answering them
<Fingerz> What's more, they are not going to support banging on the hardware. Ever.
<Fingerz> Games programmers would do well to forget about AGA and start thinking about RTG support. Accordingly RTG support should have an AGA driver. This isn't practical so I expect the next year
<Fingerz> They'll be no AGA development and the custom set is to be removed from future machines ASAP.
<Fingerz> Oh yes, if you read that spec sheet, you'll not that you REALLY WILL be shooting yourselves in the foot if you code Paula level floppy loaders.
<Fingerz> AT beg you to reconsider and use the trackdisk.device.
<Fingerz> Next.
<Drizzit> Lepus is next
<Lepus> question: Is there going to be a 8 bit sound card ? or 16 ?
<Fingerz> Ahhh.
<Fingerz> I felt strongly about this.
<Fingerz> No, they have no plans for an audio card.
<Fingerz> Remember the Walker only HAS one slot (with two sections)
<gregh> Active is next
<Fingerz> An audio card probably should be ON the GFX card in my personal view.
<Fingerz> Also we need RTG audio but this is all my opinion and off topic.
<Fingerz> Not much of an answer, basically a card would be 3rd party and so would any RTG software I guess.
<gregh> Anyone wanting to ask a question send a /msg to gregh or Drizzit - not a question but that you want to ask one.
<Fingerz> AT will develop the Walker and the PPC card. I don't think they plan on moving into GFX boards and Sound cards etc. Well that was my impression.
<Fingerz> Ugh next, I don't think I can say anymore that's hard info. It'd be my opinion and speculation.
<Fingerz> *ZenPoet: I now have picture and spec on http://www.doremi.co.uk/walker
<Fingerz> Please note 'Walker' is the working title which is why I prefer to call it Project Walker. The machine wont be called that in production.
<gregh> Active is up
<Fingerz> Active is active? :-)
<Active> I guess WB3.2 will be on CD?? Hmm. Good for our First Steps project :)
<gregh> Fiungers ;-}
<Fingerz> Ahha
<Fingerz> OK this leads on to 3.2 etc. First the question;
<Fingerz> You know I forgot to ask? :-) Seriously, I think it'll be on HD. HD comes as standard and it'll load a lot quicker.
<Drizzit> shadowzz is up next
<Fingerz> As for OS 3.2
<Fingerz> AT stress not to expect much from it. It'll be more bug-fixes and minor enhancements.
<Fingerz> Like removal of the 2G limit (mind you if you got drives like that you're probably using AFS)
<Fingerz> I mention some stuff that I knew people favoured for inclusion in 3.2
<Fingerz> Basically I was told that all manpower was really being directed at a port to PPC and then it would be recoded/optimsed and the new features would go on then.
<Fingerz> A subject dear to my heart is memory protection in the OS.
<Fingerz> They seemed to think AmigaOS wasn't really up to it as standard though stock task memory protection was being looked at.
<Fingerz> On the subject of the CD, CDFS is being updated to work with Scala etc.
<Fingerz> They said they'd include the new and the old CDFS, I'm not exactly sure why.
<Fingerz> Compatibility I guess.
<Fingerz> Next.
<gregh> Anyone wanting to ask a question send a /msg to gregh or Drizzit - not a question but that you want to ask one.
<Drizzit> your up, ShadowZZ
<ShAdOwZZ> What colours will it be avaailable in?
<Fingerz> Seems to me that AT favour black.
<Fingerz> In fact I've got a sexy black mouse they gave me which you could take as a clue.
<ShAdOwZZ> Cheer...
<Fingerz> BTW the mouse is excellent and very nice. Better than ANYTHING I've seen before. I hope to God it will be included with the Walker.
<gregh> aerosoul is next
<Fingerz> Shit. Time out. I remembered stuff that didn't make it in to the spec sheet.
<Fingerz> Mouse and keyboard ports are on the front of the unit. <Hooray they chorus>
<Fingerz> Project Walker is planned to support NON AMIGA KEYBOARDS.
<Fingerz> The idea being that you can choose your own.
<Fingerz> Groovy, Yo Aerosoul GA.
<aerosoul> How much will it approx. cost? With Quadspeed CDRom etc. And again about the os: Will there be some new design for the GUI of the OS? And: The floppy architecture will be changed.
<aerosoul> /unvoice aerosoul
<aerosoul> =)
<Fingerz> <phew>
<Fingerz> Right as for the price, they didn't know.
<Fingerz> Remember the HD and memory and even hardware features aren't nailed in stone but amazingly they said it wouldn't be much more than the A1200. not much at all.
<gregh> (lag)
<Drizzit> Frost is next
<Fingerz> I take it to mean that it will be aimed at the sub 500 UKP or 1000DM. That would be a miracle. I expect it to be over with a quick calculation on value of the compontants.
<Fingerz> componants rather.
<Fingerz> The GUI will be much the same.
<Fingerz> Some cosmetic stuff of course. Finally. :-)
<Fingerz> The space on the HD floppy wasn't decided. Indexing will be added.
<Fingerz> For that, I think we might be looking at a slight reduction in capacity. No it wouldn't be 1.44MB.
<Fingerz> But at full rate and with Indexing reliability, it should be a good standard floppy format. Not that floppies are any good anyway.
<Fingerz> I think that was it, next.
<Frost> Marketing wise; what is (IYHO) the biggest asset for Project Walker? what does it have that isn't there (through 3rth party) for current Amiga's?
<Frost> don't say the looks!!
<Fingerz> The IO chip!
<Fingerz> And the slot!
<gregh> Tunes is next
<Fingerz> Simply, it has the features of the big box Amigas but for a base level. No more wedge machine.
<Fingerz> Easy and cheaply expandable. There's no serious size constrains on CPU expansions which push up the price for A1200 accelerators.
<gregh> .ACTION is logging.
<Fingerz> The IO chip rocks. I forgot the previous question of serial speed. That's all part of the IO chip. If you don't know about such things, check out one of the ultra cheap PC general IO cards
<Fingerz> Remember this wont be available to bang on the hardware. It can and will change for the future PPC high end amiga. GA Tunes.
<Tunes> I dunno if it's been asked, but will the new computer be backwardly compatible for hardware/software ? or is it a totally new computer ?
<Fingerz> Largely it's compatible.
<Drizzit> turboe is up next
<Fingerz> It's got the AGA chip set there.
<Fingerz> All your software should work if it's OS legal but some nasty stuff will fall over. Especially on the tricky issue of the new HD floppy. Read the note on the specs sheet.
<Fingerz> No, Project Walker isn't really a new machine, it's a stepping stone.
<Fingerz> However remembet that it is DESIGNED to have the PPC card dropped in to turn it into a Power Amiga. That's what the slot was designed for.
<Fingerz> Next.
<gregh> Anyone wanting to ask a question send a /msg to gregh or Drizzit - not a question but that you want to ask one.
<gregh> .ACTION is logging.
<Fingerz> Oh yeah, I guess that means Project Walker would be the last PPC machine with AGA.
<Drizzit> TurboZ, your up
<Fingerz> .ACTION is waiting for someone to question AT's expertise at a new Amiga hardware wise. Major news..
<gregh> Turboz seems to have pinged off so rauper will be next
<Fingerz> Guess not.
<rauper> It's me again. Not strictly Walker related but when will the developers programme be available again, and do AT realise that more PR is desparately needed? Also, what's AT's expertise a
<Fingerz> :-)
<Fingerz> At are gradually scaling up the developers program though I don't know details.
<Fingerz> Remember there's a small DevCon at CeBIT on Monday and Tuesday. They have something to announce there as far as developer support is concerned.
<Drizzit> Zeus^mst is next
<Fingerz> As for PR. Well... Unfortunately I know they are doing something REALLY big but I'm sworn to secrecy. I'll say this, they have plans for a mass market capaign with a major food retailer.
<Fingerz> Probably the major food retailer.
<Fingerz> As for the AT expertise.
<Fingerz> Wait for it. You guys are going to go berzerk.
<Fingerz> Dave Haynie is ON THE TEAM.
<gregh> Fingerz: WHAT? GREAT NEWS!
<Fingerz> He's relocating to Benzeim!
<Fingerz> gregh: I shit you not. I heard it from the general managers own mouth.
<gregh> Fingerz: Best news in ages! ;-}
<Fingerz> bbl. Fetching some notes in another pad.
<Fingerz> Got them.
<Fingerz> Yes I can confirm, Stefan Domeyer, join general manager AKA presiden of Amiga Technologies TOLD ME that Dave Haynie had accepted the position.
<Fingerz> And that he was relocating to Germany.
<Fingerz> Dave Haynnie Sprechen zie Deutch I wonder? :-)
<gregh> Fingerz: Get his EMAIL address and tell us! ;-]
<Fingerz> Stefan said, "David had some ideas that were so brilliant we couldn't ignore them".
<Fingerz> Well we all knew that.
<Fingerz> gregh: Stefan?
<Fingerz> gregh: It's not on his card and I don't think he'd appreciate the overloaded mailbox anyway. :-)
<gregh> Fingers DH's. ;-} Sorry for the interrupt. Please continue. ;-}
<Fingerz> gregh: Same old one at Scala for the meantime I guess...
<Fingerz> I'm not sure WHEN he's moving or why he didn't announce it at the CIX conference the other day but Stefan told me it wasn't confidential.
<Drizzit> Fingerz: I'm sure that we will hear more about this in the newsgroups. David Haynnie is there often.
<Fingerz> Drizzit: Yes of course.
<Fingerz> Oh more questions?
<Drizzit> Zeus^mst is up.
<Fingerz> Howdy AT_CeBit: To who do we address the honour?
<Fingerz> Zeus_mst go ahead.
<Zeus^MST> Is there going to be an InterNet+softwarebundle supplied with the AmigaOS or
<Zeus^MST> in the normal softwarebundle?
<AT_CeBit2> The Show`s going fine. Lucky me... it will close in 2 hours, finally silent and relaxing stuff to do
<Fingerz> Heinz Wretsel was quite adamant that he wanted to.
<gregh> Snapper is next
<Fingerz> However he agreed with me that AmiTCP and AS225 are not really in the Amigas style guide.
<Fingerz> Possible that Envoy or a form could be bundled.
<gregh> Anyone wanting to ask a question send a /msg to gregh or Drizzit - not a question but that you want to ask one.
<Fingerz> When quizzed Heinz said that yes he was looking at a SANA-II driver for the EPP Parallel port. At last a serious network.
<Fingerz> There was no hard info on network support in the 3.2. Definately for 4.0.
<Fingerz> Go for it Snapper
<snapper> The specs provided represent all the things that Jeff Franks proposed 6 years ago and every C= Engineer and NA developer, and C= Sales company fought against. THe Walker represents many steps
<Fingerz> Wow. Something negative which I was waiting for.
<Fingerz> Well this isn't a question it's just an opinion so I'm not sure I can say too much of interest to all the folks here.
<Fingerz> I don't agree. It's not a step backwards. AT can't just make an unsupport PPC machine there has to be a stepping stone and Project Walker is, I'm satisfied, the right machine. But at the e
<Fingerz> Next.
<Drizzit> Lepus is up next
<Lepus> question#1: Is there no major changes like including the MUI or MagicWB in the OS ?...Question#2: is Cd-rom included ? If yes at what speed ? Question#3: What is the AGA replacement
<Fingerz> <I've something to add about the massive Motorolla PPC presence at the show, later>
<gregh> Billriker is next
<Fingerz> Lepus: Read the spec sheet. Everyone should have it.
<Fingerz> The first question is not coverdd in that sheet though.
<Fingerz> I doubt AT will bundle MUI. They're split themselves on it. Heinz had a healthy attitude like I believe sensible people do that MUI is a good OPTION and not to be slagged if you don't want
<Fingerz> As for MagicWB, yes he said it was being considered. Certainly some cosmetic stuff should feature in OS 3.2. In fact I believe he said it would.
<gregh> Anyone wanting to ask a question send a /msg to gregh or Drizzit - not a question but that you want to ask one.
<Fingerz> Let me add that stuff about the Motorola stand for perspective.
<Fingerz> M had a great deal of companies displaying PPC based Amigas under their wing. Apple, Bull, AT and some other companies I forget.
<Fingerz> They had some very nice compact PPC motherboards displayed in cabinets. I was cornered by a staff member and given the PR tour.
<Fingerz> He/They sang the praises of AIX running on any of the PPC machines.
<Fingerz> He agreed with me that there WAS no operating system suitable for the domestic market for the Power PC.
<Fingerz> Exception MacOS which we both agree was retro but I lapse into opinion before.
<Fingerz> Sorry, I said PPC based Amigas earlier. I meant 'computers'.
<Fingerz> Finally;
<Fingerz> I asked why BeBox were not there. The most startly company not present under their wing.
<Fingerz> The response; "BeBox who?"
<Fingerz> The moral of the story was that M themselves see the need for a domestic OS for PPC based computers.
<gregh> Anyone wanting to ask a question send a /msg to gregh or Drizzit - not a question but that you want to ask one.
<Fingerz> Next question.
<BillRiker> Hi Mat, Any ideas when new RKMs will be printed? (Roughly) When will development PPC cards be available? Is it true that Motorola are developing a laptop PowerAmiga? Did you have
<Drizzit> Snapper is next
<Fingerz> I'm afraid I didn't ask too many developer related questions for the simple reason that everything would be made clear at the developer conference on Monday, Tuesday.
<Fingerz> I expect news on that front will emerge soon after.
<Fingerz> The schedule for Dev cards... Well they plan to have (production) cards by early 97. I GUESS that they'd have developer cards during the season when Project Walker is available. 'Fall' 96.
<Fingerz> Speculation though.
<Fingerz> As for if I had a good time. Well... I was physically shatter from the travel. My God I had no idea how big CeBIT was. Sprits were GREATLY raised by seeing Project Walker AND having Heinz
<Fingerz> Not to mention the Escom BABES handing out Commodore branded pens, lighters and matchboxes (I shit you not).
<Fingerz> Next question.
<snapper> When Jeff Franks replaces the custom chips for his VGA, what is left to define an AT machine as something other than just another PC clone with a slightly different OS/GUI ?
<gregh> .ACTION is logging.
<gregh> Cyberwlf is next
<Fingerz> snapper: I guess I can deduce you're in the camp that believes the Amiga should have hardware different from anyone else.
<Fingerz> snapper: Fact is it was tried and failed. Amiga and Apple both found out. At the end of the day the high end Amiga WILL just be a PPC box (not PC clone) running AmigaOS but I put it to you
<Fingerz> The low-end machine though will be Project Walker which... has a large software based as well as the possibility of moving to modern computing standards. The avenue is finally there.
<Fingerz> Speculation and opinion central here now though. Any serious questions?
<Cyberwlf> A question I'd be intrested in hearing what you believe here, at the end of the day, when it comes down to it, do AT reps give a f*ck about the amiga, or just 'do it for the money'. ie
<Cyberwlf> inferior beings - pc/mac/etc) :) (NB. The Amiga can be similar IF it retains compatability (well most of it atleast))
<gregh> Anyone wanting to ask a question send a /msg to gregh or Drizzit - not a question but that you want to ask one.
<Cyberwlf> <GA>
<Drizzit> Goofy_ is up next.
<gregh> .ACTION is logging.
<Fingerz> Cyberwlf: A valid question.
<Fingerz> Everyone I met from AT at THIS show (not Cologne where there was a lot of general hired help) was an Amiga enthusiast hired by AT.
<Fingerz> Every company is in it for the money.
<Fingerz> Just as our own is. Example, the company wants to make money and they capitalise on hiring an enthusiast (like myself) who wants to do the job, is enthused by the job and will make money f
<Fingerz> as for the log, gregh will make it available presumably.
<Fingerz> Again this is opinion stuff of which anyone elses is as valuable as mine. If there's no more serious questions on the machine etc then I propose we throw the channel open?
<gregh> Fingerz: Well if You want ht echannel open, No probs. You want that?
<Drizzit> Fingerz: Its gonna get messy.
<Fingerz> Drizzit: Any more questions then?
<Fingerz> I did have one about EPP.
<Fingerz> EPP parallel ports are capable of very high bidirection speeds.
<gregh> Fingerz: I have a long list of people wanting to ask. It's up to you. Do you want hte channel now unmoderated?
<Fingerz> An EPP parallel port can be used for hard drives and most notably the Zip drive. Which is good as SCSI provision isn't there and it's going to be tricky to add with no PCMCIA port.
<Fingerz> gregh: Hold, couple of direct questions.
[This was when some jerk did a takeover of #walker. The conference went on in #walker_]
<jalovick> Hi there .. once we get the moderators back in place, we will continue
<Fingerz> There was a question about AT's presence at the show.
<jalovick> and I had my questions qued aswell .. anyway, lets continue ..
<Fingerz> A Walker, A4KT and an A1200 tucked in a corner on the Motorola stand.
<Fingerz> The Escom stand well... Construction would be more accurate, had much more.
<Fingerz> But still it was bundled with the other companies under Escom's wing.
<Fingerz> The AMAZING thing was the Amiga users that turned up!
<Fingerz> There was a stage right next the the AT section.
<Fingerz> Showing that crap PC software where you can pretend to play a tennis racket etc.
<Fingerz> HUNDREDS of Amiga users were in front of the thing!
<Fingerz> Yelling AMIGA! and writing graffiti on the wall conspiculously next to the stage.
<Fingerz> I don't think Escom expected that kind of turn out.
<Fingerz> Yes, the AT section was way too small but ... Any major league Escom cronies that might have been there will see first hand the support the Amiga has.
<Fingerz> OK Jalavick, you've got the spec sheet. A question?
<jalovick> its not 100% directly Walker related .. but anyway .. I'll go on
<jalovick> is the walker going to be available in a skelaton form, so people can just perchase standard PC addon hardware, for cheap expansion
<Fingerz> Someone asked me to say something about the serial port. Again the same spec as a PC general IO card. Yes that means FAR better than the paltry effort in the stock Amiga.
<Fingerz> Jalavick, they actually answered this one before about the A1200.
<jalovick> and .. have they considered makeing the motherboard to PC case spec, so it can be sold in component form ?
<Fingerz> AT said that they would be willing to supply bare bones motherboards etc for those that needed them but I think mainly they were refering to dealers wanting to build towers etc and as yet
<Fingerz> No to a PC spec. The case and size is already proprietry. The motherboard is rectangular much deeper than it is wide.
<jalovick> BTW, I think the case looks ugly ..
<Fingerz> jalovick, you have a valid point and one which I neglected to raise. I'll find out and put it in the magazine and also give a reply on IRC sometime.
<jalovick> anyway, that was about it .. I had other questions about the OS, and portability, and networking .. but thats not directly related.
<Fingerz> Of course some people think it's ugly, some people like it.
<Fingerz> Jalovick, of course the high-end Amigas should basically BE a PPC motherboard which I saw many at the M stand. They WERE standard sized and very nice units. I think you fall into a group
<jalovick> Drizzit: who is next on the list ?
<Drizzit> Hannibal
<Hannibal> I`m sure I`m not alone in thinking that 1meg of chip ram is a little strange (lame) in Walker. Is this definite, or subject for review? Also, are there any significant advertising plans?
<Fingerz> Hannibal: OK maybe it's not clear on the spec sheet. Heinz Wretsel was puzzled by that as he said it would almost definately have 2MB of CHIP in his opinion.
<Fingerz> Hannibal: Oh bugger, I was sworn to secrecy but I wont deny the Macdonalds deal. :-)
<Drizzit> Fingerz: Is it upgradable though?
<Fingerz> Drizzit: Are you familiar with the A1200?
<Fingerz> There's a removable bit of sheild over the chip memory chips.
<Drizzit> Fingerz: No, but the A4000 allows you to use either a 1MB of 2MB SIMM. Is this the case with the Walker was well?
<Fingerz> They intended to fit 1MB and allow an upgrade though in the end it was only worth doing 2MB. I think the same is true of Project Walker. I don't believe it will come in 1MB but I said tha
<Fingerz> Drizzit, chip memory is on the MB.
<jalovick> ALL: there will be some of the conferene log lost, since I have just started logging the new channel, and gregh is no longer here. I'll make the log available at a later stage ..
<Fingerz> jalovick: Ugh yeah, most everything was covered in the bit that he logged. We're covering old ground here.
<jalovick> next on the list ?
<Drizzit> Goofy_ is up
<jalovick> Fingerz: I'll chase up gregh and get the other log ..
<Goofy_> I would just like to announce that I've made a FAQ about AT/Walker based on what AT_Cebit have said on IRC. /msg me to get it. Futhermore: I read that the Walker will have MIDI as standa
<Fingerz> Goofy: Not unless that was a feature of the IO set. Heinz Wretsel made no mention of it. I don't think it's true but it would have even easier to add given that the Paula serial port woul
<Fingerz> Remember they weren't decided on exactly which general IO chip would be used.
<Fingerz> Next?
<Drizzit> Keetar is next (if he's here)
<jalovick> Fingerz: probably covered, how many of the old chipset is coming across to Walker ?
<jalovick> Driz: no, next ?
<Fingerz> jalovick: Everything. Shit I wish I had more time to do the spec sheet thing.
<Drizzit> There were several questions about who would be distributing the Walker. Any info on this?
<Drizzit> RTFact is next.
<Fingerz> I was told that it would be identical to current A1200 distribution and work was still continuing to fix that.
<Fingerz> AT were also worried that they had to see a load of A1200s they still have.
<Fingerz> Did I mention the 8520s are in sockets again? :-)
<jalovick> Fingerz: to make things a little easier for Drizzit, could you please type GA at the end of an answered question.
<RTFact> Uhm, too late.. my question has been answered :) Thanks anyways. Or maybe not... will the PPC card for this thing make it 100% up to spec with the '97 PowerAmigas?
<jalovick> ALL: once you has finished asking your question, please type GA
<Fingerz> Yes definately. Well the upgrade with be 603 based and will contain the new OS on board. The kernal will support the hardware in the walker as the kernal on the '97 PowerAmiga will suppor
<Fingerz> GA
<Drizzit> JayJar is up
<Fingerz> ?
<JayJar> is the 1mb limit a way of saying the new power amigas will not need chip ram ?
<Drizzit> Blast_SSP is up... JarJar is gone
<Blast_SSP> OK, here goes. What kund of software comes with the walker when it is sold ?
<Blast_SSP> GA
<Fingerz> This is old ground. It's not a limit. It was billed as that. Even Heinz didn't believe it would be 1MB chip.
<jalovick> ALL: If you have a question to ask, /msg drizzit "question" to be added to the list. Once you have voice, please as your question about the walker, and please type GA when finished.
<Fingerz> Just OS3.2 and the Magic Pack software (As far as anyone knew) though because of the time until production there's a lot that might change. It would be silly not to include a CD.
<Drizzit> SorteORM is up next.
<Fingerz> OK folks we have a problem. Questions are wondering off the current machine and on to hard facts on the production unit which I or AT don't know.
<Fingerz> I think everything's been mainly covered in the previous conference. I think we should throw the channel open.
<jalovick> Fingerz: ok ..
<SorteORM> I heard that Escom have economical problens, will this affect AmigaTech and the new machines/OS? As to the marketing, will AmiTech afford this?
<dakota> Hi Fingerz, did you ask AT if the a1200 surfer pack was doing well and are they going to make the walker an internet bundle? The amiga should be the internet computer.
<Active> Fingerz: Will AT will be making a decent Walker etc presence at the WOA show in London? Any indications from the CeBit visit?
<[Mayday]> 1) How much will it cost (more or less than a 1200)? 2) Any plans for a high-end version? 3) Is the slot backward compatible to an A1200 slot/wouldn't a zorro slot be better? 4) I
<chapers> is there going to be cd rom added to the amiga as standard?
<jalovick> ALL: there is more info available on the walker at http://www.doreme.co.uk/walker/ .. a channel log will be compiled soon, please mail me at jalovick@satech.net.au for a copy of the lo
<Fingerz> Haha. I can here Drizzit saying I told you so.
<Lepus> Switch back to moderate!
<Fingerz> OK sorry. There ARE valid questions I'm just not getting them.
<Drizzit> Fingerz: <Forawrded Question> What kind of motherboard production will the Walker be? Surface mounted as in the A1200/A4000, or socketed as in the older Amigas?
<Fingerz> Let me answer those as they were very good.
<Fingerz> First Drizzits.
<Fingerz> Production will be a straight rectangular 4 layer surface mounted (as everything is and should be) except for key chips. 8520's socketed and I bet 'Tony' will be socketed since it'll be a
<Fingerz> Let me scroll back and answer the previous.
<jalovick> ALL: if anyone has a full log of both chats, please /msg me
<jalovick> at the end
<Fingerz> SorteOrm: Escom did indeed have serious financial problems. However, they've tackled them quickly, refinanced and share price rose again.
<Fingerz> This is out of the realms of this conference but Stefan Domeyer told me that they would experience no major problems as the board of directors still view Amiga Technologies as the way to
<Fingerz> Dakota: Surf Pack in Walker. That's a marketting thing. Decided closer to the launch dated I'd think. I don't know any more though Heinz said they DO want IP connectivity in the OS quick
<Fingerz> Active: YES the Walker will be at WOA.
<Fingerz> Mayday: Cost, covered before. More than the A1200. Impression was under 500UKP or 1000DM but realistically it'll probably be higher but not by too much thanks to the MB which is much more
<jalovick> ALL: If you have a question to ask, /msg drizzit "question" to be added to the list. Once you have voice, please as your question about the walker, type GA when finished.
<Fingerz> Chapers: Get the spec sheet. Quad Speed CD-ROM is standard.
<Fingerz> Ok that's it. Back to a current question.
<Fingerz> News: CU Amiga will be holding a Meeting of the Minds at WOA about Walker and future plans. Key developers/retailers and AT representation.
<Fingerz> GA please.
<jalovick> Drizzit: who is up next,
<jalovick> ?
<Drizzit> everyone on my list has asked or is gone.
<Drizzit> (or has an off topic question)
<Fingerz> OK a little more stuff.
<Fingerz> Walker isn't the name of the production unit.
<Fingerz> Please read the spec sheet. Cu Amiga is running a competition for the new name of the machine.
<Fingerz> Don't you dare send in Amiga Vacuum. :)
<Fingerz> Sorry, GA
<Drizzit> The AmiHoover1300
<jalovick> the ATVac 5000
<Fingerz> Drizzit: ROTFL
<jalovick> ALL: If you have a question to ask, /msg drizzit "question" to be added to the list. Once you have voice, please as your question about the walker, type GA when finished.
<Maverick_> ah
<Maverick_> sorry
<Maverick_> :D
<Maverick_> writing
<Fingerz> JC's going to have a feild day. He has an electrical appliant fixation.
<Maverick_> (btw: great that Dave Haynie is in the Team) Q: Will be possible to use A1200 accelerator boards (i.e. I've just bought a Blizzard1260) on the Walker? Maybe using an adaptor? BTW: Amiga
<Maverick_> We dont want only Worms, right? We aren't so naive to think that since Doom can be done with RTG, the rest can be done too.. I am sad... it would be the most silly thing a non-skilled-co
<Maverick_> GA
<Maverick_> :D
<Maverick_> O:)
<jalovick> ALL: If you have a question to ask, /msg drizzit "question" to be added to the list. Once you have voice, please ask your question about the walker. Type GA when finished.
<Fingerz> Maverick: Mmm PCs manage it though mate. Lots of 3rd party graphics boards etc all work with most games. The Amiga will be the same though better OS control and hopefully it should be a l
<Fingerz> Maverick: But that's later, in the mean time games producers still will only get games looking modern on the Amiga by banging on the hardware I agree. Not to mention the quantity of A1200
<Fingerz> GA anyway.
<Drizzit> Lepus is up
<Lepus> Im just wondering, wasnt it suposed to be people from AT in here answrring our questions ?
<Lepus> ga
<Fingerz> Ok a few people said this.
<Fingerz> The AT guys on the IRC are banning Surfer displays at Cebit.
<Fingerz> Shit sorry. MANNING not banning.
<Fingerz> They aren't the same people involved in Project Walker.
<Fingerz> The rest of the staff only just saw the thing. If you could get Heinz on here then sure but I know he's way too busy.
<Drizzit> JayJar is next.
<Fingerz> Mean while I'm it. Sorry. I had hoped this would be a quick conference, I'd had out the spec sheet and that would be it. I'm not passing myself off as the be all expert.
<Fingerz> Go for it.
<JayJar> what was the reaction of other developers to this new machine? GA
<jalovick> ALL: If you have a question to ask, /msg drizzit "question" to be added to the list. Once you have voice, please ask your question about the walker. Type GA when finished. A spec sheet
<Fingerz> I only met a couple of guys. They were mixed like you guys.
<Drizzit> Blast_SSP is up next
<Fingerz> One game developer thought along the lines of Maverick. He was concerned he couldn't bang on the hardware. Applications programmers said they'd code just the same way they always had done
<Drizzit> Fingerz: Did your specs on 3.2 say anything about enhancements to the "lowlevel.library" then?
<Fingerz> I can't stress enough how positive the whole thing is. Project Walker is a very nice machine and most than we expected to see. Of course that doesn't stop people from saying it should be
<Fingerz> Drizzit: No, Heinz wasn't forthcoming on 3.2 very much. He mentioned bugs and fixed and stressed not to expect too much. The lowlevel library was specifically for the CD32 hardware was it
<Blast_SSP> About the OS... What about RTx? When will autodocs be out ? Why rev..43. ? And the SIMM sockets. They take 32mb simms. That I know.. Will they take double sided simms? double le
<Fingerz> Blast: Woah.
<Fingerz> Walker can be expanded to 128MB.
<Fingerz> So it must be able to take 64MB SIMMS. :-)
<Fingerz> Yes double sided. I forgot to ask about EDO. Sorry.
<Fingerz> I imagine that's not so much of an issue with the stock CPU though it definately would with the PPC board.
<Drizzit> Blast_SSP: If I am correct, it would make little difference on an EC030/40 if you used EDO memory or not.
<Fingerz> Because of the SIMMS and the nice 'n fast bus, I guess that question is important as it's possible there might not be SIMMS on the PPC card. This is speculating again though.
<jalovick> NOTE: EDO RAM is basicly normal RAM, with cache on the chip, to increase access time
<Drizzit> Snapper is next
<Fingerz> jalovick: Your glue logic has to support the control lines though no? I doubt this is in Walker but it's not too late to ask for it.
<Fingerz> GA Snapper
<snapper> Given that AT has around 80,000 A1200s and 35,000 A4000Ts in warehouses and is unable to sell them, and given that Escom is iin a far worse inventory position, where will the money come from
<snapper> Given that AT has around 80,000 A1200s and 35,000 A4000Ts in warehouses and is unable to sell them, and given that Escom is iin a far worse inventory position, where will the money come from
<Fingerz> NOTE: It's not too late to ask for ANYTHING. The Proto isn't finished.
<jalovick> Fingerz: not 100% sure about it .. just relaying what little I know, for anyone that didnt ..
<Fingerz> Snapper: Is it just me or do you represent the voice of doom? :-)
<Fingerz> For a start there's a whole lot less A4KTs than that unsold! We can't even buy one ourselves.
<jalovick> GA ?
<Fingerz> Anyway the position of Escom is fairly secure. New shares. 7% sold to a German company. New finance. The money to make the new machine is peanuts to a company the size of Escom.
<Fingerz> GA now thanks Jalovick.
<Drizzit> Pajo is up
<Fingerz> (The above is my opinion)
<Drizzit> And... Pajo is gone so it goes to rexorient
<RexOrient> with all the delay/trouble they have to get the developper support up again, I wonder if they're really capable of getting OS development up fast enough to produce a PPC AmigaOS
<RexOrient> GA
<jalovick> ALL: If you have a question to ask, /msg drizzit "question" to be added to the list. Once you have voice, please ask your question about the walker. Type GA when finished. A spec sheet
<Fingerz> That's a good point.
<Fingerz> I'm 100% sure they have the hardware expertice but as for software I'm not sure. I don't know exactly who's on the team.
<Drizzit> RexOrient: Well, Phase V is making a port of Exec and some other routines just for their own PPC cards. If Escom/AT plan to use it as well, it is unclear at the moment.
<Fingerz> Given that they surprised us with Project Walker actually being in a working position, I think we'd have to be a little positive that they've said they're on target.
<Fingerz> I've just been told Laire is on the team. I didn't know that and again that sounds darn positive to me.
<Fingerz> Laire's not to get a big head now. :-)
<Drizzit> RexOrient: But we just heard that David Haynie is going work for Amiga Tech, so anything is possible.
<Fingerz> GA please. Perhaps Laire would like to say something?
<Drizzit> DForm is up
<jalovick> ALL: Morden has just put up a partual log, and some info on the Walker at http://www.ozramp.net.au/~morden/
<Drizzit> And DForm is gone so lets move to JeJe
<Fingerz> Drizzit: On the Haynie topic, that's why i said hardware looked good but we don't KNOW of any serious PPC expertise on the team.
<Fingerz> Laire?
<Laire> fingerz: who said i'm on the team ?:-)
<Laire> besides...on which team ?
<JeJe> Don't you find the design too amitious ?
<Laire> :-)
<Fingerz> Oh something on the grapevine. :-)
<Fingerz> Or the AmIRC in this case. :-))
<Fingerz> JeJe: Um. Walker too ambitious? /msg me.
<jalovick> ALL: correction, the log on Morden's page isnt of this channel
<Drizzit> Back to D-Form
<d-fORM> is there a cooperation with Phase5? CyberGraphX V3? will it be a part of the OS? How far has the ppc port of the os come? (sorry if this has been asked)
<Fingerz> Laire: Software development team (AT). You don't want to confirm or deny?
<jalovick> ALL: If you have a question to ask, /msg drizzit "question" to be added to the list. Once you have voice, please ask your question about the walker. Type GA when finished. A spec sheet
<Fingerz> d-form: Uh. Way out of my scope. Laire's your man. I'm clued up on Project Walker and that's about it.
<Fingerz> We losing steam again?
<Drizzit> My list if empty
<Drizzit> err.. is
<Drizzit> TurboZ has a Q:
<Fingerz> Last one.
<Laire> fingerz: not that i know
<Fingerz> Laire: Oh OK. I was told a porky then.
<TurboZ> how is the walker likely to be marketed and when will it be here??
<Fingerz> I don't know about Marketting specifics. As for when, production units are due for the 'fall' of this year well in time for the Christmas season.
<Fingerz> There's some major marketting stuff about to happen on the A1200 front.
<Drizzit> Blast_SSP is up next.
<Blast_SSP> Didn't the walker have 4 sockets ? ie 32*4 not 64*2 mb ?! You said 64 mb simms when I asked before.. and what about RTx (Retargetable gfx etc) . and WHY OS 43 ?! And...
<Blast_SSP> still not finnished! :)
<Fingerz> Go on.
<Blast_SSP> EDO is not "on board cache" EDO is like Static Column on the A3000 .. different adressing which is faster...
<Blast_SSP> and..
<Fingerz> <phew>
<Fingerz> Can I answer?
<Blast_SSP> the 030/25 (a3000) is faster with STATIC COLUMN mem, why shouldn't the 030/40mhz design improve in speed from it as well.. PLEAE answer all this time? :))
<Blast_SSP> GA
<Fingerz> 2 sockets.
<Fingerz> Expandable to 128MB in total. That's what I was told and not the specifics of the capacity of the SIMMS though Heinz said '128MB SIMMs' aren't readily available which sounds odd.
<Fingerz> As for RTG;
<Fingerz> Project Walker doesn't need it as standard as there's no new GFX hardware.
<Fingerz> New GFX hardware will be 3rd party vendors who will supply their own.
<Fingerz> RTG software is for OS 4.0
<Drizzit> Snapper is up next.
<Fingerz> As for the question of EDO, I didn't ask. I don't know much about EDO so I'll take your word for it. I see no reason why this couldn't be raised with them so I shall.
<Fingerz> Laire tells me that there's yet to be a deal scribed in blood between AT and Phase 5.
<Fingerz> AT were quite adamant however that they intended to market the PPC 603 board for the Walker themselves even though it would be a dual development.
<Fingerz> As I understand it they believe there to be no conflict as the base P5 product will be a 604.
<Fingerz> And now back to the gloom. Snapper GA. :-)
<snapper> Being able to buy an A4T outside of the US has no relationship to quantities on hand, just as A1200s are not available in NA, and no I am not the voice of doom, I am the person that asks the
<Fingerz> Snapper, 35000 A4Ts is BS though.
<Fingerz> But otherwise OK. Do you have some hard questions that I might be able to answer?
<Fingerz> GA?
<Fingerz> Most of these questions should now be going to an AT rep.
<Drizzit> Thats it
<Fingerz> OK let's throw it to the wolves. :-)
[This was when the channel was unmoderated, therefore the rest is more chaotic]
<jalovick> anyone else have any questions, /msg drizzit question
<jalovick> ALL: If you have a question to ask, /msg drizzit "question" to be added to the list. Once you have voice, please ask your question about the walker. Type GA when finished. A spec sheet
<_Swatch> Will AmigaOS 4.x be PPCP compliant? And what about unsold A1200? TIA, GA.
<Fingerz> Jalovick: No. :-)
<Blast_SSP> Did miss my answer to "why is it called os43 OR DID I NOT GET AN ANSWER?!?!?!
<jalovick> Blast: logical progression ?
<Fingerz> Blast: No V43. Not 4.3. It's the current version of the OS Walker is running.
<Hannibal> Fingerz: so do you anticipate them selling 1200`s off cheap in the coming months?
<Blast_SSP> Fingerz: but os 3.1 = rev40. why 3.2=rev43.. that's my qyestion
<Blast_SSP> question even
<rauper> Fingerz: Are they going to be able to sell the damn things in Escom shops?
<NGrath> No PCMCIA??? tutut
<Fingerz> Hannibal: Mmm. The instant they devalue the stock they will end up reporting a loss. My guess is they'll try some serious marketting first.
<Cyberwlf> .ACTION has a log of this since this<- channel was opened. Dont ask for it yet.
<Fingerz> NGrath: What use is it in the Walker?
<Blast_SSP> jalovick: it's not logical progression... We missed v41 and v42!
<Morden> Fingerz: Thanks for everything (just thought I'd say it :))
<Fingerz> rauper: They're going to try. They KNOW about the staff expertise problems. No solution forthcoming.
<jalovick> ALL: I will be compiling a complete log, as soon as betasoft gets his bit's to me .. :)
<Fingerz> Morden: No problem buddy, thanks.
<_Swatch> ALL: V43 because before C= went down, they fored the kickstart source... ;)
<Fingerz> Blast: Perhaps they were internal?
<Morden> fingerz :)
<Madhatter> blast: why is 3.0 39
<betasoft> Jalov: Okey, have you sad it soo here it comes. Raw with a lot of /msg an other trash :)
<Blast_SSP> Madhatter: because the one before (2.1) was 38
<Morden> .ACTION lets everyone know he has another Walker Page at http://www.ozramp.net.au/~morden/ in case your web access to the uk is slow..
<rauper> Cheers Fingerz geeza!
<Madhatter> blast: what was 1.3 then?
<Blast_SSP> Madh: 34
<Madhatter> blast: what was 1.2?
<Blast_SSP> Madh: 33
<NGrath> Fingerz: I have a squirrel... good point... CD player s standard
<Goofy_> A FAQ about Walker/AT can be found at http://www.intercom.no/~andersb/AT_FAQ1_1.txt
<Hannibal> Fingerz: so, is the Walker really an alien artifact? ;)
<snapper> .msg Fingerz A1200s cost then 267.oo
<Keetar> All has anyone the complete cap of this conference? if so please dcc it 2 me
<Madhatter> blast: why doesn't it start at 1 then, not 30 somtihng?
<Fingerz> NGrath: Precisely. PCMCIA should have worked a lot better but it never did. No proper working Ethernet. Mind you, the Walker will be tricky to add SCSI.
<Emmett_> hey rauper :)
<Madhatter> fingers: whats its internal port gonna be?
<Morden> fingerz: someone will most likely add SCSI via a CPU card...
<Fingerz> Hannibal: I saw the flying saucer drop it myself. :-)
<Morden> ..? even
<rauper> hey emmett :)
<Hannibal> Fingerz: hehehee ;o)
<Liquorice> Is it true that AGA in Walker is going to be made in BiCMOS??
<rauper> Fingers: Are they going to make it out of Bakelite for a nineteen fifties style?
<Fingerz> Madhatter: That was very speculative. Heinz mentioned it. I enthused. We yacked for ages about possibilitied and what would be cool.
<Blast_SSP> Madh: 1.2=33, 1.3=34, 1.4ß=35,2.0ß=36,2.0=37,2.1=38,3.0=39,3.1=40 and 3.2=43. there's logical progression, but not up to 3.2
<Fingerz> Madhatter: We agreed the Amiga needs a form of 'user' port again.
<Madhatter> fingers: hmm..
<rauper> 2.04 missed out
<snapper> Of course if you want SCSI or ethernet, you;ll be paying big bucks for low volume addins
<Fingerz> Liquorice: No, it needs work for that. No work for AGA will be understaken.
<Blast_SSP> rauper: 2.04+ = 37
<Blast_SSP> rauper: 2.00+2.03=36
<Fingerz> rauper: I wish. No, it'll probably be plastic as it's much cheaper for the strange size.
<Fingerz> rauper: Shape rather.
<Blast_SSP> rauper: 2.00-2.03=36
<snapper> If you are using Amiga's as video machines, guess you'll be moving to something else pretty fast.
<Fingerz> snapper: You think off the shelf cards can't do video?
<Fingerz> Snapper: Let's get this out of the way, what do YOU think AT should have done?
<_Swatch> bbl
<NGrath> Tricky to as SCSI??? thats bad surely?
<snapper> I think Play Inc will replace NewTek, based on the NTSC type chips, but its unlikely one would want to do that on something that used to be an Amiga.
<Fingerz> NGrath: Partly. Everyone tends to avoid SCSI for the domestic market because of expense. When you've got a nice E-IDE interface what do you care?
<Fingerz> Oh yeah, I saw the Apple Pippen thing.
<NGrath> Treols: Existing amiga users have SCSI HD`s, and CDS etc... what are they sposed to do?
<jalovick> Pippen ?
<Fingerz> Looked like a PSX put in a vice and given 10 turns.
<NGrath> I spose exsisting amiga owners wont be buying it tho :)
<Madhatter> fingerz: why have they put it in a hoover?
<Fingerz> Ngrath: No-one said SCSI was NOT going to happen, it just would be 'tricky'.
<Morden> turns which way? :)
<snapper> Fingerz: I know what they MUST do to survive, I don't see any movement to address the root of the current finnacial problems, but rather a stubbornness not to .
<Fingerz> Ngrath: Example, you'll OBVIOUSLY be able to buy an accelerator with SCSI on board.
<NGrath> Fingerz: OK OK, I was just asking :D
<Hannibal> Fingerz: so, any chance of RJ Mical moving to Germany to work as well? ;)
<jalovick> hm
<Drizzit> NGrath: Remember that EIDE does not have a 2 drive limit. Its up to 4 drives now. And most things such as tape backups and CDROM drives are made for IDE/EIDE interfaces now.
<Madhatter> fingerz: wouldn't it of been easier to stick it in a normal box?
<Fingerz> snapper: Oh you KNOW what they have to do? Perhaps you'd be good enough to tell us?
<Morden> fingerz: perhaps SCSI is something AT should consider. I mean, SCSI devices are cheaper than 2.5" ide ... i assume 3.5" ide is suitable for the walker? :)
<Blast_SSP> Drizzit: using two channels YES
<Fingerz> Hannibal: Shit who knos.
<Madhatter> morden: scsi devices are more
<Blast_SSP> Drizzit: using two scsi channels you get 14 devices
<NGrath> Drizzit: true, but I`m talking about existing SCSI peripheals
<snapper> RJ will not be moving to Germany, and will not be associated with AT, he will be doing something else though
<Fingerz> Morden: Of course. It'll come with one.
<Hannibal> Fingerz: don`t get my hopes up :)
<Hannibal> snapper: where did you hear this?
<snapper> Hear what ?
<Drizzit> NGrath: SCSI is nice, but this is going to be a low end machine. I'd much rather see them put an LC040 in instead of an SCSI interface.
<Hannibal> snapper: that RJ will be doing something else?
<Fingerz> Something I didn't get to add because I thought it was a little personal and irrelevant;
<jalovick> I would like to see an AT board, with 2 zorro3, 2 ISA, and 3 PCI slots, on board port headers (so cables for ports can be run anywhere), EIDE, Floppy, 2 16550 serial ports, EPP paralle
<snapper> Take a guess....
<Fingerz> I had my doubts about the Amiga and AT. They've done some suspect things or NOT done what they should have etc but...
<NGrath> Drizzit: very true, 030 is way to slow, specially when we hve pc`s at 133Hz fer cheaper...
<Hannibal> snapper: Bill Gates` arse?
<Fingerz> At the end of the day Project Walker is the machine I believed was right. It oozes a quality of people who were doing the right stuff.
<Fingerz> I feel MUCH happier about the future of the Amiga.
<Morden> madhatter: scsi devices are more than 3.5" ... but 2.5" is expensive.
<Madhatter> hmm
<jalovick> Fingerz: do you think that the above is likely ?
<RTFact> Fingerz: Just a Q... the case-design... is that purely cosmetic or is there some sort of practivality to it?
<Madhatter> fingers: wouldn'y they save money putting it in a normal "big box" type casing?
<Fingerz> jalovick: I'm sorry, what was likely? I must have missed something.
<MuxFolder> I don't see any problem with DMA-able E-IDE in a low cost machine instead of SCSI... now what's the biggest EIDE disk? 2G? 3G? Imagine four of them.
<snapper> Fingerz: I disagree with you totally and so does most of the serious NA developer base, whats left of it. Jeff Franks vision will ensure that very little NA development will take place form h
<RTFact> practicality too
<jalovick> I would like to see an AT board, with 2 zorro3, 2 ISA, and 3 PCI slots, on board port headers (so cables for ports can be run anywhere), EIDE, Floppy, 2 16550 serial ports, EPP paralle
<Drizzit> NGrath: Well, in bulks of 1, an EC030/40 runs $66. An 030/50 runs $177. That makes it out of the question. But a LC040/25 runs $145 and an LC040/33 runs $164. Add an additional $50 for
<Morden> fingerz: whoops, major problem, us zip drive owners can't sit them on top of our machines!!!!! :)
<Fingerz> snapper: You speaking for the NA developer base now?
<jalovick> Mux: they have 4 Gig EIDE's now .. 9 Gig's soon
<Fingerz> Morden: There's a flat bit on top.
<Fingerz> The case style is a marketting thing. Put it this way, the Amiga was a wedge for so long. Now people think it should be a PC case (well after the PC), don't you think it should look diffe
<snapper> Fingerz: Perhaps this will be the straw that forces the BeBox OS replacement.
<Arch> Drizzit: what good is the 030 tho? w/current software your sitting there watching the performance meter maxxed out waiting for the machine to figure things out - 030's way too slow...
<snapper> Fingerz: A good portion of it.
<Fingerz> snapper: Sure it will be. Which is why BeBox wasn't anywhere to be found at the largest computer show in the world huh?
<MuxFolder> Jalovick: Then there's the problem that if one wants a low cost machine, there's hardly no more disks smaller than 1 gigabyte...
<aerosoul> .ACTION thinks the new amiga should look like an SGI or like the JAVA BOX from sun :) (did you see it, fingerz?).
<Madhatter> .ACTION has his doubts about te bebox.
<NGrath> Arch: nah, 030`s are plenty fast enough for normal use
<Maverick2> :D
<NorthWay> hm. any log somebody could dcc?
<Maverick2> a 40Mhz 030 as SLOWEST Amiga is cool IMO
<Maverick2> and 4Mb ram....
<Arch> NGrath: hardly - my 030/50 maxes out all the time..
<Maverick2> cool
<Maverick2> :)
<snapper> Fingerz: Well, they have les resources than AT, I wouldn't expect them to go outside the US at this point, they don't have anything to sell yet as it isn't done yet.
<Fingerz> Aerosoul: Well... I saw a shit load of case styles for the PPC machines at M's stand. Your Amiga could be any one of those or a stock PC case.
<NGrath> Arch: doing what?
<Morden> fingerz: Fit in in home surroundings... yep right next to the vacuum ... <giggle> :)
<Drizzit> Fingerz: Thats not true. Look at SGI. Their cases stand out because they are different colors (Blue, Purple, Black). What Escom/AT is doing is adding unnessary costs to a low end machin
<Fingerz> Maverick: 6MB of RAM.
<PaulN> 2 years late, but what the heck
<Maverick2> Arch: my 060/50Mhz too ;) thanx to slow chipset (when drawing)
<Fingerz> Drizzit: Injection cases are cheap.
<Maverick2> Fingerz: 4Mb of ram, and 2Mb of SLOW chipram ;)
<Arch> Ngrath: Ibrowse comes to mind...
<Madhatter> peecees are only running at 133mhz cuz their s/w is crap. I tried running 3 progs on one in college and it died on me,
<Fingerz> Drizzit: Odd shaped, too many layer MBs cost money ala A1200.
<MuxFolder> How about 'nice, graffiti-colored box for Your new and cool Amiga'? :)
<NGrath> Arch: nah, my 030 is fine with web stuff... specially as you have to wait for dat to be downloaded anyway... jpegs aren`t even that bad
<Fingerz> Shit did I forget something on the case front? I did.
<aerosoul> fingerz: well.. you didn't see the java box then? looks like an at&t answering machine... :) too small to put an amiga in it though.. :)
<Maverick2> :D
<snapper> Fingerz: But a very large group of us in NA have been seriously considering building an Exec stype OS for the BeBox, but have been waiting for AT to tip its hand.
<NGrath> Madhatter: I run ftp, irc, telnet and email at the same time on a P90 no probs
<NGrath> (16 meg tho)
<SorteORM> .
<Arch> NGrath: sure they are - 4-5 secs for a jpeg? no thanks..
<Madhatter> ngrath: but those are rather small progs
<Fingerz> The lid is a hood. You remove it, you have a base with the MB in it. You can put your OWN hood on it or raise it etc. Provision is made for that.
<Drizzit> Fingerz: Read my message to Jason Compton in c.s.a.advocasy. You'll see what I think we should do.
<NGrath> Madhatter: true.
<Maverick2> bye all
<MuxFolder> NGrath: A 020 machine would run those apps at the same time.
<Maverick2> Amiga rocks
<Maverick2> pEEcEE sucks
<Hannibal> bye Mav
<Maverick2> (sorry, I had to say it!)
<Fingerz> snapper: Go for it. Don't sit around and convince me AT has it all wrong. I've made it clear I don't agree.
<Maverick2> ;D
<aerosoul> mux: do you think any reliable person will buy it then? :)
<Fingerz> Drizzit: Ahh I don't believe I take that group. It's mainly full of hot air.
<jalovick> snapper: NA ?
<snapper> Fingerz: Theres still 2 basic and distinct issues with AT, one has now been answered, the more important one has not.
<NGrath> MuxFolder: yup, so would a 286...
<Madhatter> ngrath: it fell over running a wordproccessor, spread sheet and umm... electronics WB ithink
<MuxFolder> Aerosoul: I thought the young people are a big market today. :)
<NGrath> Madhatter: spreaf sheets are bad, EWB isn`t cery cpu intenive I would have thought, only whrn you run the circiut
<aerosoul> mux: not if the machine will be cost >1000$... this ain't a snes :)
<NGrath> Ppl only buy 133`s cos they are availbale, ya don`t need that speed but fer fligh sms and rendering, why does a wordprocessor need it?
<MuxFolder> NGrath: Yes, it too. Of course there's that OS overhead with Wintel.
<Madhatter> ngrath: well, i was not impressed with these new all singing and dancing P100+ that they got in college and most ppl are wanking over
<Blast_SSP> NGrath: poorly programmed programs
<Arch> NGrath: some of my bro's games are pretty clunky on his P100...
<NGrath> Madhatter: compared to 486`s they`re far better
<NGrath> Arch: thats the programming
<Blast_SSP> .ACTION is going...
<Blast_SSP> Bye all!
<Drizzit> Fingerz: Well, my idea is this: give the new Amiga an 040 socket, and then let the dealers put in what type/speed CPU their users want. Same with case, mem, and hard drive.
<Blast_SSP> Thanx Fingerz for your time and your answers!
<Arch> NGrath: that's why you need faster cpu's...
<NGrath> PC`s have the power to be sloppy, amiga needs proper code
<Madhatter> ngrath: well, they need all the hourse power they can get to run the smallest of progs
<Blast_SSP> .ACTION prepares for Hyperspace.
<Drizzit> Fingerz: If the user wants an 040/40, let them be able to buy one. If all they want is an LC040/25, he, let them drop one of those in and just change a jumper.
<snapper> Troels: Thats certainly possible, I'm pretty much leaning toward a Power Stack myself, and given the group, its probably that HRP compliance would be the goal.
<NGrath> Arch: but if the cpus weren`t available the coders would have to work harder at making bettter engines and making their progs faster, they don`t have to now, so publish any old
<Hannibal> Fingerz: yep, thanks very much for all the info :))
<Arch> Drizzit: I agree - enough with the low end...
<MuxFolder> Aerosoul: You think that Walker will be >$1000 machine!?!?!
<aerosoul> mux: can be...
<Madhatter> fingerz: ~howmuch will it be?
<Drizzit> Fingerz: And have 3 Amiga cases. A desktop, minitower, or a full tower. Again, let dealers put the systems together, much like they do with PCs. That way Escom/AT can just roll off 1 MB
<Arch> NGrath: well, what do u expect from dos ppl? they'll buy anything....
